Hi Terilee or Ashley
Well, the long awaited date with the dentist is about here. Wednesday I start on antibiotic and Thursday he pulls the tooth and repairs the bone loss.
I am wondering what is the best way to take the DDS. Guess away from the antibiotic (Clindamycin), but will take the antibiotic every 6 hours for 10 days. Hate to think of what that will do to all the good that I have done in the last almost 6 months. I am in the 11th week of taking oregano and have worked up to 3 drops twice a day in the purge and in the last week have upped the DDS to 3caps 3 times a day. Really have felt better in the last couple of weeks.
Sandi warned about an infection when she had tooth problems and so I think I should take the antibiotic.
Guess just need to get it over with.
I am planning on soups for a while. I going to have just the local antisetic. They gave me a lot of choices but I don't do well with drugs and want to get by with the least I can. And will be taking an anti-inflammatory (AnapoxDS) for a few days. In the past have had stomach problems with just Advil. Will get off that stuff as soon as possible. I have Arnica to take and see if that helps.
I often think of Sandi and all she is going through. And she took the time to post the warning about teeth. Bless her.
OH and I am so sorry to hear about your kitties.
I lost our 19 year old special cat about 6 years ago and I understand the sadness. It is amazing how much a part of your life these pets become.
Thanks for listening
Judith

HI Judith,

When I had a my root canaled tooth and other problem tooth extracted nearly a year ago, I needed an antibiotic as well. We didn't start out with one -- my holistic dentist bombarded me with Transfer Factors and immune boosters and I.V. vitamin therapies, but I was so run down and in such bad shape that I developed infection anyway. The antibiotics, while making me feel rotten, did clear my infection. I think most docs like to use antibiotics as preventive when doing any sort of bone work anyway. And you mentioned that the doc would be repairing bone loss, yes?

It's so frustrating at times .... we need to take specific and necessary measures in order to heal our bodies overall. But, sometimes some of those measures can set us back initially in our healing. It's the old One Step Forward, Two Steps Back conundrum. But overall (at least in my own situation), I look at it as slowly removing immune stressors on our bodies so that we can heal and find balance.

I've taken Clindamycin and it's considered to be in the "Super drug" class of antibiotics, I think. I would really, really, encourage you to take as much probiotics away from the time you take the Clindamycin as possible.

Have you ever taken Florastor -- the probiotic with the Sacchromyces Boullardii strain in it? It is a non-pathogenic yeast and will establish residence in the GI tract for only the time you are taking it. After you stop taking it, it will leave the GI tract in about 5 days.

I mention this specific strain because it is a good insurance policy to take while taking Clindamycin in particular. This antibiotic can cause C. Difficile intestinal infections. You might not have a problem with it. But I just mention this anyway. Sometimes the infection doesn't show up right away but will show up weeks or months after taking this drug.

This drug gave me C. Difficile and I wish I'd known about Florastor and the specific saccharomyces boullardii probiotic -- because I would have taken that as well as my regular probiotics during my Clindamycin treatment.

Some folks might not be able to tolerate this probiotic because it is yeast derived. I don't do well with yeast products, but I'm fine with this probiotic.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention this in case it might be helpful. When our immune systems are already challenged with yeast and other issues, I think it's important to know how to arm ourselves and our bodies the best we can do avoid further complications and problems. It's a hard enough job healing our intestines and anything we can do to prevent further problems is worth considering, in my opinion.

Sharon

Thank you so much Sharon.
All that Information is greatly appreciated. An ounce of prevention is worth a TON of cure.
I have located that strain of probiotic in a local health food store and will get some this afternoon. I hope the yeast is not a problem. I will start it tonight to see if there is any reaction to it. Once I start the prescriptions it will be hard to tell which is the causing problems.
I have a probiotic by Dr.Ohhira that I was taking until I started WA. It has 12 strains of lactic acid baceria strains. I have used only the DDS since starting this program. Have you heard anything about the strains conflicting. Each company always says theirs is best.
Thanks again.
Judith

I've heard people "say" that different brands and/or strains can sometimes compete with each other ... but I have never read that for myself. It really gets to be very hard to know who to believe anymore since so many people have something to sell when they are touting probiotics!

If you Google Florastor and look at the Faq's on the website it can give specific info for you. If memory serves, antibiotics will not interfere the Florastor. This specific strain is THE strain which will keep C. Difficile in check. A Gastro doc told me that it will fill the receptors in the intestines where the C. Difficile would go. Since those receptors are being filled with S. Boullardi, then the C. Difficile will not take hold.

Some people also use it for yeast/antifungal programs as well.

All I can say is that I believe I got my C. Difficile from the Clindamycin and I'm so sorry no one told me about the saccharomyces boullardi strain and Florastor before I took it. C. Difficile is nasty!

I've been told by my doc that it's ok to take both my regular probiotic and the Florastor together -- so I guess competition isn't an issue? I know of 3 other people who are doing the same thing and they've had success in controlling their C. Diff symptoms. We all wish we'd known about this before -- perhaps we wouldn't have gotten the C. Diff.

Sharon

Thanks Sharon,
I have not find the Florastor locally so far. Whole foods does not carry it. Another health food store carries another brand, Jarrow Saccharomyces Boulardii + Mos. MannanOligoSaccharide. But when the store owner went to sell she realized it was 4 month out of date. It has been refrigerated. Since she could not get more in the time frame that I need it, she gave me the bottle. So that may be what I will have to use. There are several more health food stores to check tomorrow. But time is running out.
I did go to the Florastor site and they say do not take any antifungal while taking it. So should I quit the oregano?
Ah the questions
I have been reluntant to take any antibiotic, but figure the risk is too great to go without. Have you heard of an antibiotic that does not have this risk with it? Maybe I could suggest it to the Dentist. Tomorrow is when I am supposed to start the antibiotic.
I sure don't want anything else wrong with my gut.
Judith

Hi Judith,

First, I just want to say that I didn't mean to sound like an alarmist in recommending the Florastor with that antibiotic. It's just that Clindamycin is notorious for causing that particular gut infection. You might be able to take the antibiotic and be fine with it.

You can buy Florastor from Amazon. And I've even seen the stuff for sale in the Safeway grocery stores believe it or not. I tried to go to their online site just now (Florastor's) and it was down for maintenance. But there are a slew of online vendors who sell the stuff. You could call one and ask them to express mail it to you, if you want. It does not have to be refrigerated.

This list is from Dr. Bartlett at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

LIKELY TO CAUSE C. DIFFICILE:
Clindamycin
Keflex
Ceftin
Ceclor
All other cephalosporins
Amoxicillin
Augmentin

MIDDLE OF THE ROAD:
Cipro
Levoflex (also Levaquin)
Tequin
Avelox
Bactrim
Erythromycin
Biaxin
Zithromax

SAFE TO TAKE:
Macrodantin (Macrobid)
Sulfa
Aminoglycoside
Flagyl (metronidiazole)
Oral and IV Vancomycin


Keep in mind, however, that even the "safe" antibiotics (except Vanco.)can occasionally cause C. diff. even though Flagyl is often used to treat it.

Anyway, as I said, I didn't mean to alarm you. I only meant to raise the warning flag with the particular Clindamycin. I've certainly had to take my fair share of antibiotics over the last few years. Sometimes they are necessary and can save lives. I wouldn't be here right now if I hadn't been given antibiotics.

Sharon

I know what you mean about antibiotics saving lives. Penicillin saved my life when I was about 15. They sure have their place and it is good to be aware and take all measures to help off set their down side. I took amoxicillian for teeth problems till I had a reaction and ended in the ER. So can not use that.
My Dentist did a good work up on my dental history and is aware of the candida and IBS. I guess he thinks this is the best choice. He is going to put bone graft in.
I really appreciate you sending the info from John Hopkins. I will ask him about it tomorrow.
And I am armed with the Jarrow Saccharomyces boulardii if nothing else. And I will continue with the DDS at least 3 times daily. Guess I should ask Terilee about stopping the oregano.
Thank heavens for this site and caring people like you sharing this information.
Judith

Sharon,
I want to add that I have been getting adrenal shots once a week for months and that has helped a lot. My Osteopath Dr. has recommende and ACE shot the day before the extraction and a multivitimin drip the next day.
If it were not for modern medicine and preventive medicine I would have been dead several times.
We live in interesting times.
Judith

Grammycof and SamplerSharon,

I have been also scheduled for bone grafting. Osseous surgery is included. My Periodontist wants me to take PENVK (500mg). I didn't see this particular penicillin on the John Hopkins list but assume it falls in one of those first two categories. I am petrified of taking any kind of antibiotics. So far I have stayed away, at all cost, for 2 years. Now, it's imperative to take them. Right now I am battling an infection in the certain tooth in question, even though my oral hygiene is impeccable. My footpaths are listerine with 6 drops of myrhh as a mouthwash, grapefruit seed extract on my toothpaste, and tepid water mixed myrhh in my irrigation. It has worked before. The myrhh is a strong agent. The doctor approves of holistics however wants me to take the penicillin to rid of the small problem since I must travel on business as of 1st of June through the 7th. The idea of having to travel international with this problem is not ideal. The big event will take place on June 12th. Even though I take 1050mg of Vitamin C everyday, I have been recommended to take 1000mg of Arnica Montana (herbal supplement) 2 days before and continue taking 21 days after the surgery to aid healing and speed repair. These medications are included with vitamin C:
A.Pen VK (penicillin) or Clindamycin if penicillin allergic.
B.Darvocet (proposyphene) severe pain medication.
C.Peridex (Chorhexidine)antiseptic mouth rinse.
D. Halcion as an oral sedative/anti-anxiety.
E. ALEVE as an anti-inflammatory.
One or all may be red flags to the well being of my health. I agree with Grammycof as to one has invested much time and effort into restoring normal gut health to have to choose to deteriorate in aiding another problem.

Grammycof, keep me informed on your surgery and progress. I will pray for you! Thanks for this post.

SamplerSharon, if you have any further suggestions, please keep me informed as well!

Tarilee,Sandi,Ashley, hopefully some encouraging suggestions too!

Millie

I know what you mean about taking antibiotics. I'm scared to death of them because of all the yeast and intestinal problems I've had. And antibiotics also will block the excretion of some heavy metals like mercury while we take the antibiotic. And if we have a heavy metal burden, that just makes everything worse.

But, as I said, antibiotics save lives. And anytime surgery is involved on a bone -- I think antibiotics are pretty much a given, from what I know. It's better than ending up with a bone infection.

I couldn't wait any longer to have my teeth seen to either. I had alot of work done. On the extraction front, I had two teeth extracted -- one root canaled tooth and one tooth that had abcessed. Tooth infections just put a terrible drain on the immune system.

My dentist used Halcion on me for my conscious sedation. I was so nervous that he had to give me an elephant's dosage. lol! But it was great stuff and I did not have any bad reactions to it. He also decided to really put me into a deeper relaxation/sleep with nitrous oxide. I guess he felt that I was so weak that my immune system needed the break from the stress of the dental procedures. I felt great when my dentist woke me up afterwards.

That arnica is good stuff. I took it orally and my dentist also gave me an ointment with arnica, aloe vera gel and vitamin E and he ozonated the stuff. There is also a homeopathic ointment called Traumeel that is good to use on the outside of the face/jaw area where the extraction was. It helps with healing, soreness and inflammation.

On the Vitamin C -- while this is well known, most dentists just neglect to tell patients, that you should stop taking any Vitamin C for about 48 hours prior to having any dental work done if you're going to have a numbing agent used. The reason is that Vitamin C can interfere with the numbing agents that are used to numb the mouth.

I was given narcotics for pain relief as well. I think I used them for a day or two -- can't really remember. lol! But the one thing that my dentist also had me do for quite awhile after my surgery was to use a Quercitin/Bromelain supplement. I took this between meals like 4-5 times a day. It reduces inflammation and is a good anti-oxidant. I actually still take this today to help with my bowel problems, sinus/allergies, etc.

I'll consult my dental folder and look at my notes and surgical procedures to see if I see anything that might be of use to you all.

Sharon

Hi Guys, This morning I tried to talk my dentist out of Clindamycin and showed him the list from John Hopkins, but he said it was the best for the purpose and it was a low dose and for a short period of time. Unless someone has had this problem I don't think they can understand. I guess I just have to get it over with. I started on it at 6PM tonight and can feel the itch on my back and face already. That had improved so much in the last few weeks. Nasty to feel it back.
Am making a big pot of vegetable soup and intend to freeze it. Also plan on egg drop soup. Sound like a whimp. It is not the surgery, though the pterodactyls are flying around in my stomach, it is the antibiotic that concerns me. Thanks to WA and all the great info and support I get here will get through this.
Have to get to feeling better. 3 weeks my husband starts his Chemo again. It is a once a week for 4 weeks protocol that keeps his lymphoma under control.
1. I think I should do the purge to keep the bowels moving well. My body is used to it.
2. I am concerned about the probiotic that has the yeast in it.

Hope Tarilee can give some imput.
Thanks everyone.
Judith

Hi Judith,

You know, you could be just fine with the Clindamycin as far as that C. Difficile that I mentioned. C. Diff only takes hold if it has an opportunity to, from what I've read. Perhaps if you increase your probiotics a bunch that will do the trick and you won't have to even worry about something like that Florastor. And if your instincts are telling you not to take the Sacc. Boullardi then don't. I don't know about you, but I'm a firm believer in using instincts!

And since you're really wanting to hear from Tarilee, I'm wondering if you might want to post your questions in the Candida Complex section of the Forum? I thought I remembered that Tarilee wasn't going to answer questions in this Mercury/Metal section. I may be wrong though!

Hugs,
Sharon

Thanks for answering.
I am taking the Jarrow formula Saccharomycces Boulardii with 3 DDS plus three times a day. I feel that I was fortunate for you to suggest it and it may prevent another problem. Have taken several doses now and so far so good. I could not find the brand you suggest anywhere here.
I dug out the traumell, something I used to use for back pain until I started yoga, so thanks for that suggestion. I have prepared a daily schedule of taking the meds, probiotic and meals. Will leave soon to see the dentist. Was pretty stressed yesterday, but am ok at this minute. I am rethinking the twilight sleep thing. Will see how it goes. I did not know that Tarilee does not come to this site. I really apreciate all the advice.
Judith

quote:

Originally posted by SamplerSharon:
I know what you mean about taking antibiotics. I'm scared to death of them because of all the yeast and intestinal problems I've had. And antibiotics also will block the excretion of some heavy metals like mercury while we take the antibiotic. And if we have a heavy metal burden, that just makes everything worse.
But, as I said, antibiotics save lives. And anytime surgery is involved on a bone -- I think antibiotics are pretty much a given, from what I know. It's better than ending up with a bone infection.

I couldn't wait any longer to have my teeth seen to either. I had alot of work done. On the extraction front, I had two teeth extracted -- one root canaled tooth and one tooth that had abcessed. Tooth infections just put a terrible drain on the immune system.

My dentist used Halcion on me for my conscious sedation. I was so nervous that he had to give me an elephant's dosage. lol! But it was great stuff and I did not have any bad reactions to it. He also decided to really put me into a deeper relaxation/sleep with nitrous oxide. I guess he felt that I was so weak that my immune system needed the break from the stress of the dental procedures. I felt great when my dentist woke me up afterwards.

That arnica is good stuff. I took it orally and my dentist also gave me an ointment with arnica, aloe vera gel and vitamin E and he ozonated the stuff. There is also a homeopathic ointment called Traumeel that is good to use on the outside of the face/jaw area where the extraction was. It helps with healing, soreness and inflammation.

On the Vitamin C -- while this is well known, most dentists just neglect to tell patients, that you should stop taking any Vitamin C for about 48 hours prior to having any dental work done if you're going to have a numbing agent used. The reason is that Vitamin C can interfere with the numbing agents that are used to numb the mouth.

I was given narcotics for pain relief as well. I think I used them for a day or two -- can't really remember. lol! But the one thing that my dentist also had me do for quite awhile after my surgery was to use a Quercitin/Bromelain supplement. I took this between meals like 4-5 times a day. It reduces inflammation and is a good anti-oxidant. I actually still take this today to help with my bowel problems, sinus/allergies, etc.

I'll consult my dental folder and look at my notes and surgical procedures to see if I see anything that might be of use to you all.

Sharon

Sharon,
My gratitude for your suggestions!

Grammycof,
Hope everything goes well.

Millie

Hi Gals! i just posted a quick response to the post you wrote about abx Millie and I'll post it here too (not that it's that long or interesting but here you have it):

"Hi Millie--I'm sorry you have to have surgery of any kind--I know it's never fun and usually involves us putting things into our bodies that we normally wouldn't.

I'll say this--abx are not ideal for people with candida for obvious reasons, but there are times in life where they are necessary and i don't know that I'd ignore the advice of your doctor here. i would simply take a whole load of acidophilous (10/day) as far away from the abx as possible, and stay on a very strict diet while taking them and several weeks afterward.

I am still recovering from my use of Iv abx last year candida-wise, but I was on 2 grams a day for almost two months so that'll do it. It did not, however, put me right back to where I was when i first started this program.

Just take very good care of yourself and don't fight it when you're taking it--accept it as something that will help you to heal for the time you're on it..."

I just wanted to quickly say that I actually had a reaction to florastor in the form of heat rash all over my behind!! I was shocked and it took me a while to figure it out but sure enough that big old rash was directly related to the floracol...Let us know how you do with it Judith--surgery and all!

I wish both you ladies a wonderful, speedy recovery with nothing but good health to follow!!

Ashley

Hi Every one,
Surgery went well. Did not get the twilight sleep. Tooth came out in one piece. My osteopath suggested mentally to thank the tooth and let it go. Maybe that helped. Am using the Naproxen and arnica, and have put cold on it. No swelling. Dentist put in a lot of bone and used pig flap. So far things are good. Plan on 3 DDSplus 3 times a day. I had an itch on face and back yesterday, but think Stress was the factor. Relieved it is over. Ready to sleep tonight
Thanks for your suggestions and support.
Judith

Judith - glad to hear the tooth removal went well - and hope that your recovery will be complete and swift

Susan

Grammycof,
Great to hear that everything is good.
God Bless,
Millie

HI Judith--congratulations!! It's so nice when we're looking at the back of an ordeal isn't it? Let us know how you're healing alright?

Take good care,

Ashley

Hi Everyone.
Yes, looking back is much better than looking forward to dental work. The mouth seems to improve hourly. The naproxan is doing a good job of keeping the swelling down and cool packs have helped. There is hardly any swelling. A bit of brusing. Tired of soup and on to better things.
Millie, Your surgery sounds much more extensive than the bit I had. I am sure you will do well and be relieved to have it over. I am still taking the antibiotic. May not do the full 10 days but do not want to take any chances. I took a vitimin drip yesterday and am sure it helped. My dentist likes Vit C and zinc but he is not much on alternative medicine. I get that from an Osteopath.
Thanks to you all.
Judith