Hi - I'm starting again on the PB shake, (not adding the caproil yet - will wait a couple of weeks before adding that part) and wanted to know what is a good starting dose for the psyllium/bentonite portion. I started probiotics a couple of days ago and had horrible die-off just from that, so want to go slowly even with the PB. Any recommendations greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Cathy,

Congratulations on re-starting the Attogram Lahoz protocol. I hope you'll find great health improvements along side your comrades on the Whole Approach forum.

If you've lost your instructions that came with your Whole Approach order, you can email Linda at the contact link (top of this page.)

Generally we encourage people to start with just a quarter to half a teaspoon of psyllium and a teaspoon to a half a tablespoon of bentonite. Are you certain you're having a response to the probiotics? Could it be that you are experiencing some allergy withdrawal and detoxification from diet improvements? How long have you been eating a therapeutic diet? Is it a large change for you from your usual fare? Our newsletter section has an article on healing crises that might be of interest to you right now, in case this could be what's happening.

Take good care Cathy, and good luck with the early stages of your protocol.

Tarilee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tarilee,

Hi Tarilee - thanks for the welcome - it's good to be back. I keep thinking, if only I had stuck with it before I wouldn't be back! Oh, lessons are learned the hard way for me.

Yes, I'm almost positive it was the probiotics. My diet has been pretty good with only the occasional salty snack (chips, etc) at night. I cut out the probiotics for a few days and the symptoms I was having (depression, anxiety) went away. So, I started with 1/16th of a tsp of the acidophilus last night and will slowly increase over the next few weeks. I won't be adding in the caproil for at least a couple of weeks since I'm having such a strong reaction to even just the acidophilus!

I've reread most of your articles to "refresh" myself with things and am easing my way back into things! I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

Hi Cathy,

It sounds like you're all set for success this time.

I'm amazed that such a small dose of the powder could produce a palpable effect. Keep me informed of your discoveries as you go along. This is so interesting. Acidophillus does not kill yeast, it just crowds it and helps to make a less hospitable environment for it.

Keep up the great work!

Tarilee

I'm having the same effect from the DDS as CathyB. I took my first dose (2 capsules) Tuesday morning at work - 9:30 AM. About an hour later, my anxieties were through the roof. I thought I was going to have to leave early, but I shook it off with some exercise over lunch. I eventually felt better as the day wore on.

Wednesday, I took only one capsule around 9:30 AM with a similar, but less severe result. Again I felt better as the day wore on.

As a test, I did not take the DDS on Thurs or Fri. Today (Sat), I took a single capsule and had the anxiety start up again in about an hour or hour and a half

If it's not dieoff, I'm having some other reaction to it.

CathyB, were you ever able to increase the dosage without negative affects?

Thanks.
BirdDog

Hi BirdDog:
What I've done is opened up the capsules and have increased it very slowly and so far have been able to tolerate the small adjustments. I found I really have had to increase it slowly. Maybe try opening up the capsule, dump about 1/2 into some water and see how you make out with that. Keep us posted.
Cathy.

Hi Birdog, Cathy,

The UAS,DDS products are very well tolerated by almost all. Your reports are quite unusual. However, could you possibly be allergic to rice starch? Have you had this reaction to any other supplements?

TLC

Hi Tarilee - actually, if you google "probiotics and dieoff" you'll see that it happens all the time that you get can get dieoff from just the probiotics. Also my naturopathic doctor says she has also seen it.

I can eat rice so I don't think I'm allergic to rice starch. Once I got more on the diet and started killing more candida, the dieoff calmed down and now I can take quite a bit of the probiotics.

Hi Mary,

I'm aware there is discussion of this sort on various sites. For clarity, I'll explain more about where I'm coming from and why. I understand that many people claim they are getting die off from the products. However, in most cases, unless they are taking very large doses, I am not of the belief that this is what is causing their symptoms and even then I see there are often other factors involved.

Probiotics alone are not usually capable of correcting a yeast problem and this is because their ability to crowd out candida and make the intestines uninhabitable to new growth, is not enough to kill off a lot of yeast. We only feel what is technically die off, when we are suffering from high mycotoxin levels in the gut. These are only increased when the yeast start dying.

In most cases people are also making diet changes or using anti-fungals at the same time so detoxification can be involved in the discomfort. And chicolin or FOS that is in most products can cause a little bit of harmless gas when used in large doses.

I'm not saying there will never be a case where die off is observed after taking probiotics but I consider it very rare. It's natural that people who are just learning about their bodies reactions to certain supplements and foods, might misinterpret a reaction in conjunction with probiotic use as die off because they've heard of it.

Though I think it IS rare, I believe it was Ashley and a couple of other veteran members over the years who have wondered about die off and probiotics and due to feedback like this over the years, I acknowledge that it may be possible. This being said, I think it is presumed to be happening many times when it is not.

Tarilee

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tarilee,

Hi Tarilee,

I'm not sure if I'm allergic to rice starch. Overall, I was feeling pretty good for a while, but have had an increase in symptoms lately, and am struggling to determine if it's dieoff (just started the Lahoz protocol) or if I've developed food allergies, or something else. I generally avoid rice, so I can't say for sure. Would you expect anxiety type symptoms with an allergy to rice starch?

I've taken lots of other supplements without issue, even lesser quality probiotics. I'd assumed the DDS was a better quality probiotic than what I'd been taken previously and was having a more drastic effect. However, it sounds like that may not be the case and I need to continue investigating the cause.

I have not tried the DDS since the last post, as I'm currently trying to ramp up on the psyllium, bentonite, and caproyl. It's been slow, as I think I'm feeling the effects of small amounts of those as well. Are there possible allergic reactions to those, or is this likely dieoff?

Thanks.

Hi Bird Dog,

If you've just started the full protocol then you are also taking the Caproyl no? You say you've been 'ramping up' on it. And I assume you've been using it a while. This is your likely culprit. Go very slowly on your gradually increasing doses of it.

You could definitely have anxiety related to Caproyl use. However, I'll expand on the anxiety issue below as it is complex.

You could also have a food allergy though anxiety and food allergies are not AS common. Food additives, caffeine (or other stimulating herb), gluten or super-heated vegetable oil would be the most likely to cause anxiety and any of those as well as dairy could also cause depression. You can read about some of these possibilities in the Mental Illness or Allergy article:

Mental Illness or Allergy
by Tarilee Cornish
http://www.wholeapproach.com/n...s/2003/04_April.html

You could also be becoming environmentally sensitive because of the candida overgrowth or die off (both of which increase mycotoxins and strain the nervous system.) If candida related phenomenon is wreaking havoc with your immune system you can become sensitive to anything chemically resembling the yeast or mycotoxins. This can result in sensitivity to alcohol, formaldehyde and other similar agents. Reactions to these often include heart palpitations, dizziness, brain fog, or anxiety and panic attacks.

Given what is happening in our world these days you could also very well be exposed to increased radiation. We have very significant levels of radiation in our homes and work places due to cordless phones, compact fluorescent bulbs, wi-fi, cell phone towers and any other cordless devices. The measurements of radiation levels that I've observed with an special meter, are amazingly high. These sorts of frequencies of radiation pollution can cause any number of symptoms including those mimicking die off and candida. The increase in radiation emitting devices is making my job much harder as a result. And it's also making your job as a self-healer harder. Remember that radiation can go through walls, ceilings and floors. Those who live in buildings with others are exposed to second hand radiation and there is little recourse. To date, most people will still look at you like you've got boots on your ears if you mention radiation probl

Hi Tarilee

Thank you so much for the response. Anxiety is a difficult issue to deal with and the uncertainty of the healing process is ironically self-feeding.

I've been on the full protocol for a little over a week. I had to reduce the amounts from the initially suggested because I felt awful at about .5 tsp of Caproyl after a two days. I reduced to .25 tsp of Caproyl and was able to tolerate that until yesterday when the anxiety levels increased. I'm taking a few days off to see if the anxiety settles down before starting again.

Based on your feedback, I'll assume the anxiety is related to the caproyl, but also be conscious of the other factors mentioned.

Thanks again for your support.

Hi BirdDog - sorry to hear you are having probs with dieoff. I was doing really well with the caproil - I was up to one tsp and then wham, yesterday and today the depression reared it's ugly head so I am going to give myself a day or two break and see if things calm down. I think I'm into dieoff as well.

Keep us posted as to how you are doing.
Cathy.

Hey BirdDog,

You're on the right track to take a break if you think you might have over done it. Reactions like this, if you link them to the Caproyl can be seen as a good sign. It shows that you're going to respond dramatically to the approach. That's great news! Keep up the good work!

Tarilee